tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post1553543582183683915..comments2023-08-10T06:32:38.601-04:00Comments on By Their Strange Fruit <a name="top"> </a>: How to Get To Sesame StreetBTSF:http://www.blogger.com/profile/02553697351488297764noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-33149161712750066232014-03-05T15:30:53.441-05:002014-03-05T15:30:53.441-05:00Parks and Recreaction and Brooklyn nine-nine are t...Parks and Recreaction and Brooklyn nine-nine are two shows I've been watching that have rather diverse casts though the top billed characters are still white. I also like that the POC's on these two shows are not written to represent their entire race, so to speak. They're just there to be funny. East Asians, southeast Asians and Asian-americans are still woefully under-represented in network though. I also watch a lot of Sesame Street (I have a 3yo and a 1yo) and I commend them for the diversity they put out there. They even have people with different accents reading the alphabet over animations which I think is a nice touch!Jona Hilarionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-78958113545628730602011-10-28T17:39:53.034-04:002011-10-28T17:39:53.034-04:00From Yrro Simyarin via @socimages "I think...From Yrro Simyarin via @socimages "I think it's because kids shows are more intentionally didactic than adult shows. In adult shows whatever plot and characters were written (or how they think the target market will respond) are more important to the producers than projecting values. Not that they couldn't choose to tell different stories that did involve more minorities, but teaching people that diversity (or anything, really) is good, ends up as a lower priority."StrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-84069549352743538652011-10-27T20:04:09.072-04:002011-10-27T20:04:09.072-04:00The pentatonic riff is a nice touch--haha!The pentatonic riff is a nice touch--haha!StrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-37212065015646796382011-10-27T20:04:08.558-04:002011-10-27T20:04:08.558-04:00Related, a "Dr. Horrible sing-along blog"...Related, a "Dr. Horrible sing-along blog" commentary via the song "Nobody's Asian in the movies" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNmzegQUtFAStrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-88830962944823205002011-10-24T10:16:38.019-04:002011-10-24T10:16:38.019-04:00Related from NPR today: Latin@ actors and Hollywou...Related from NPR today: Latin@ actors and Hollywouldn't: http://www.npr.org/2011/10/24/141594495/moreno-leguizamo-talk-latin-life-in-hollywouldntStrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-52023977829445093542011-10-17T23:04:36.747-04:002011-10-17T23:04:36.747-04:00Edited only to make the whole thing show (no words...Edited only to make the whole thing show (no words changed)...silly disqusStrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-48339805879104615692011-10-17T11:09:11.090-04:002011-10-17T11:09:11.090-04:00Thanks for your comment! Now lets get into it...
...Thanks for your comment! Now lets get into it... <br /><br /><br /><br />1. Those are all 90s/80s shows. They are not on TV now, which is what<br />I'm focusing on... current TV. And as you pointed out, people of all<br />"colors" watched them. So<br />why aren't there such shows on TV now? That's the whole point of the<br />post... I chose to make the argument with current kids shows &<br />current network shows, but I could have made the argument with past<br />network TV and current network TV. The most common response to "Why<br />isn't there more diversity in network TV?" is "It's a money/popularity<br />game, and white people won't watch shows with brown people in it". Both<br />the kids show point and your 90s TV point counters that -- but yet we<br />don't have those shows on TV right now. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />2. Are the non-white shows simply on cable now? I don't think so... I<br />know there<br />are two Tyler Perry (*ughhhh*) projects on TBS and two "Black" sitcoms<br />on BET, and<br />there's Psych (which I'll count b/c a black guy is one of the main<br />characters). I'm unaware of other projects on cable with non-white MAIN<br />characters that are scripted shows. That is kind of moot, as the<br />conversation is about network<br />TV, and while there are fewer sitcoms right now (and why can't there be<br />a drama with lots of minorities instead of a sitcom) there are still<br />plenty of them being produced with all-white casts. And when it comes<br />to non-black non-whites, the landscape is pretty bad and has been bad,<br />you're right. I'm<br />seeing more Southeast Asians than ever before which is awesome, but<br />still needs to be better.... which was what my post is trying to say. <br /><br /><br /><br />2.<br />Even with cable, and even if the landscape got more colorful, I'm not<br />saying we should say "non-whites are on TV, hurray! We're done!" but<br />right now there are hardly any. Period. Why? I can't go into poor<br />representation of minorities on TV right now if there aren't any<br />minorities on TV right now. Those shows from the 90s weren't perfect, but that<br />doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. A lot of network TV with all white<br />casts are pretty terrible in regards to gender roles, for example, but<br />no one is arguing it would be better if they just didn't exist. Seems<br />like just like in a lot of areas, shows with non-whites have to be<br />better or perfect just to be able to run with the mediocre... <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />The last three points you made address why I made the kids show comparison:<br />these shows tackle diversity of lots of different types, not just<br />black/white and not just race; brought in different cultural elements<br />and didn't lose the white folks; handled it well without marginalizing<br />or resorting to tokenism. Not every kids show is perfect but they are<br />much, much better than prime-time. All I'm trying to say is, IT CAN BE<br />DONE! So why isn't it? City Athenahttp://sidehustlestories.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-46871605318365700822011-10-17T11:08:56.700-04:002011-10-17T11:08:56.700-04:00Thanks for your comment! Now lets get into it...
...Thanks for your comment! Now lets get into it... <br /><br />1. Those are all 90s/80s shows. They are not on TV now, which is what I'm focusing on... current TV. And as you pointed out, people of all "colors" watched them. So<br />why aren't there such shows on TV now? That's the whole point of the<br />post... I chose to make the argument with current kids shows &<br />current network shows, but I could have made the argument with past<br />network TV and current network TV. The most common response to "Why<br />isn't there more diversity in network TV?" is "It's a money/popularity<br />game, and white people won't watch shows with brown people in it". Both<br />the kids show point and your 90s TV point counters that -- but yet we<br />don't have those shows on TV right now. <br /><br /><br />2. Are the non-white shows simply on cable now? I don't think so... I know there<br />are two Tyler Perry (*ughhhh*) projects on TBS and two "Black" sitcoms on BET, and<br />there's Psych (which I'll count b/c a black guy is one of the main<br />characters). I'm unaware of other projects on cable with non-white MAIN characters that are scripted shows. That is kind of moot, as the conversation is about network<br />TV, and while there are fewer sitcoms right now (and why can't there be<br />a drama with lots of minorities instead of a sitcom) there are still<br />plenty of them being produced with all-white casts. And when it comes<br />to non-black non-whites, the landscape is pretty bad and has been bad, you're right. I'm<br />seeing more Southeast Asians than ever before which is awesome, but<br />still needs to be better.... which was what my post is trying to say. <br /><br />2.<br />Even with cable, and even if the landscape got more colorful, I'm not<br />saying we should say "non-whites are on TV, hurray! We're done!" but<br />right now there are hardly any. Period. Why? I can't go into poor<br />representation of minorities on TV right now if there aren't any<br />minorities on TV right now. Those shows from the 90s weren't perfect, but that<br />doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. A lot of network TV with all white<br />casts are pretty terrible in regards to gender roles, for example, but<br />no one is arguing it would be better if they just didn't exist. Seems<br />like just like in a lot of areas, shows with non-whites have to be<br />better or perfect just to be able to run with the mediocre... <br /><br /><br />The last three points you made address why I made the kids show comparison:<br />these shows tackle diversity of lots of different types, not just<br />black/white and not just race; brought in different cultural elements<br />and didn't lose the white folks; handled it well without marginalizing<br />or resorting to tokenism. Not every kids show is perfect but they are<br />much, much better than prime-time. All I'm trying to say is, IT CAN BE<br />DONE! So why isn't it?City Athenahttp://sidehustlestories.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-76301832786681758052011-10-17T01:06:36.847-04:002011-10-17T01:06:36.847-04:00The Cosby Show. A Different World. Family Matters....The Cosby Show. A Different World. Family Matters. Sister, Sister. Living Single (my personal favorite). Fresh Prince!! Hangin' With Mr. Cooper. The Wayans Bros. Moesha. Heck, Martin and the Steve Harvey Show.<br /><br />And that's only the major shows I can think of from the 90s. All on major network TV (I should know, because I didn't have cable). I enjoyed many of them, and so did a lot of my friends (black, white, AND other "colors"). I think I still remember all the words to the Family Matters opening, I will flat kick people off the TV to watch Living Single reruns, and I don't know a single person, of any color, who had a childhood in America and does not know the Fresh Prince opening by heart. <br /><br />It really isn't "just children's shows" that can be diverse. (Also, I'd argue that's kind of a facile comparison anyway, but we're not here for that.)<br /><br />Now, just because these shows were on major TV networks, featured black casts, and were hugely popular does not mean that there aren't problems. <br /><br />First and foremost: What happened? City Athena is right, there isn't that saturation anymore on major networks. Did they go to cable voluntarily? More people who have TVs have cable now than ever before. Sure, there were other considerations involved, but it is something to think about. I would also like to bring up the point that sitcoms aren't as popular now as they were then, but that just brings up more questions when you really dive into it.<br /><br />Secondly: Just because they were visible, non-white, and popular, does that mean they presented a positive view of non-white people to whites? Or, more accurately, as is implied through much of this post (aside from the Dora the Explorer example), a positive view of black people to non-blacks? Or even to blacks, for that matter—how harmful has the "well-meaning crazy loud black guy/girl actin' a fool" stereotype been?<br /><br />Thirdly: If the answer to the second question is "no": Does that really mean that they were actually "bad"?<br /><br />When it comes to Hispanic or Asian (South Asian, East Asian, or <br />Near-East Asian) shows, I do agree that there really isn't anything for <br />the older-than-kids set on major network TV. However, I feel that:<br /><br />1) If you incorporate enough cultural stuff from whichever ethnic background you use, the big shots may actually have a point when it comes to being worried about losing a connection to their major audience.<br /><br />2) If you don't—if you write a "white" show and just cast people of these different backgrounds, you will offend people of that specific background BECAUSE you don't have any cultural stuff, AND it'll be obvious that it's, well, gratuitous. Which it would be if this option were taken.<br /><br />3) More commonly, we have a mix between the two, with characters ranging from "super Americanized" to what they call "fresh off the boat". As we can see, this doesn't balance issue 1 and issue 2: It compounds them into even bigger problems.<br /><br />There are more problems—there will always be more problems—but I think it's important to consider these points if you're going to bring this subject up.M.noreply@blogger.com