tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post2388271982680637666..comments2023-08-10T06:32:38.601-04:00Comments on By Their Strange Fruit <a name="top"> </a>: That Mascot Doesn't Honor AnyoneBTSF:http://www.blogger.com/profile/02553697351488297764noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-1359527146036866782014-06-18T13:08:02.488-04:002014-06-18T13:08:02.488-04:00Folks in DC have been clamoring for the team's...Folks in DC have been clamoring for the team's victorious return to the city. But mayor Vincent Gray has raised familiar concerns, stating the franchise would need to seriously consider changing the team's name and mascot before planning a move: http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/01/dc_mayor_says_redskins_football_team_must_consider_a_name_change_to_return_to_town.htmlBTSFbloghttp://bytheirstrangefruit.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-66554277082547548102013-02-07T12:40:21.172-05:002013-02-07T12:40:21.172-05:00Good perspective on the case of FSU and the Semino...Good perspective on the case of FSU and the Seminole Nation: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/02/07/interest-convergence-fsu-and-the-seminole-tribe-of-florida/<br /><br />excerpt:<br />"But the hard thing about FSU is that it always gives fodder to the mascot defenders. “But the Seminole approve of Florida State! They don’t care!” Hopefully I’ve made a bit of a case as to why they’ve consented to have their image used, but I also want to point out that just because one faction of a marginalized group believes one thing, it doesn’t mean that everyone feels that way. Can you imagine if we expected all white folks to feel the same about a controversial issue… like gun control, for example? "StrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-66053540297775327712013-01-15T22:02:57.438-05:002013-01-15T22:02:57.438-05:00Joe, thanks for your input. I'm glad you recog...Joe, thanks for your input. I'm glad you recognize how complicated this issue is and that it goes well beyond a 1000-word blog post. I appreciate the opportunity to expand on some of the issues here: <br /><br /><br />You are right in bringing up FSU, which has a long standing history and partnership with the Seminole Nation, as it may serve as a model moving forward. The university actively request students and newspapers not refer to dressed student as 'mascots,' and they are careful to be respectful at all sporting events. They are in close dialogue with representatives of the Seminole Nation and make decisions jointly and respectfully. The partnership is of course essential. It is for this reason that the 2010 Wisconsin law against offensive mascots allows schools to apply for an exemption if they obtain written permission from a partnering tribe that acknowledges consent and endorsement of the practice. Every tribe is different and so will of course have autonomous sensibilities about how their own iconography aught to be used. <br /><br /><br />Of course, you understand that the existence of FSU example does not make the hundreds of offensive examples any less offensive. Neither does a 'turn about is fair play' argument, given the disproportionate popularity of 'Indian' mascots. To my knowledge, Saints do not typically use mimics of sacred iconography as part of their franchise. The Pope does not run onto the field and do a silly dance. Cheerleaders do not dress as sexy nuns. Crucifixes are not sold and waved around to rally the players. A parody of the Lord's prayer is not chanted after touch downs. Moreover, much of New Orleans is Catholic, allowing opportunity for self-determination in a way not possible for a marginalized and often invisible minority like American Indians. Though Catholics have been on the receiving end of prejudice in this country, by in large it has not had the devastating and accumulated effect that systematic discrimination against indigenous nations has had, which makes the mockery is particularly grating. Nevertheless, should Catholics object to its association with the team, then I do believe it should be respected. Just as I believe the repeated objections from native tribes should be respected, and to ignore them is offensive in itself. <br /><br /><br />You last point about the legislation of change is such an important one. Yes indeed!! We cannot legislate the heart. This is why businesses are now more integrated than our churches. This speaks to the importance of Christian communities using our understanding of grace, justice, reconciliation to help usher in the change that will never come from mandated regulations. We have such an important role to play.StrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-7404787892823952402013-01-15T21:52:52.685-05:002013-01-15T21:52:52.685-05:00There are holes in the argument, but overall, I ag...There are holes in the argument, but overall, I agree. <br /><br />1) The relationship between Florida State and the Seminole Nation IS one example of honoring the Seminole culture. The student who dresses as the "mascot" for games has to go through a lot to be chosen to do so.<br /><br />2) "The Saints" could easily be offensive to Catholics or Christians. <br /><br />3) While their presence SHOWS the need for a heart change, you can't legislate that heart change, and the racism won't disappear if the Washington Redskins become the Washington Senators, or something like that. That's like painting your oranges red and calling them apples.Joe C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-37740500622685540872013-01-14T12:30:22.578-05:002013-01-14T12:30:22.578-05:00hi Kaleb! Thanks for your comment!
I have to be ...hi Kaleb! Thanks for your comment! <br /><br />I have to be honest and say I didn't realize that the Seahawks had American Indian associations (vs an animal mascot like the Bears etc) until you pointed it out. Thank you for doing so. It think it helps that the means of 'honoring' is with an animal symbol rather than a human being. Of course it would ultimately be up to the native tribes of the area whether the Seahawk is sacred and inappropriate for use. I don't know of objections, but as I mentioned, was unfamiliar with the association. It would be very interesting to look into. It could very well be an example of respectful honoring through mascots. <br /><br />Another one to look at might be FSU, which is often represented by the Seminole Nation. FSU has a long standing history and partnership. The university actively request students and newspapers not refer to the Seminole people as 'mascots,' and they are careful to be respectful at all sporting events. They are in close dialogue with representatives of the Seminole Nation and make decisions jointly and respectfully. The partnership is of course essential. I'm not sure where it stand currently in it's reception, but last I heard it was a positive relationship.<br /><br />I tend to agree with you that 'Vikings' is more of a profession though I am aware that there have been some concerns citing the idea that the nickname perpetuates unfair stereotypes about early Scandinavian settlers to the Minnesota area. Again, I would defer to those whose heritage is being represented, and it seems (at least at the moment) that few objections have been raised.StrngeFruithttp://bytheirstrangefruit.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1475128319218423248.post-2708042941248461132013-01-14T12:10:06.075-05:002013-01-14T12:10:06.075-05:00This thought passed my mind when I saw the Seattle...This thought passed my mind when I saw the Seattle Seahawks play the Washington team a couple weeks ago; correct me if I'm wrong, but the Seahawks' use of American Indian imagery seems more celebratory than offensive. (It does help that the city of Seattle was named after Chief Seattle.) This gives me hope that there is a productive place for American Indian signs and symbols in the world of mainstream sports. (As a Swedish-American, I can only come to this issue from the outside, as "Viking" mascots tend more towards the category of profession-based mascots, like the Steelers, rather than the category of ethnicity. So please correct me if I am wrong.)Kaleb Nyquisthttp://twitter.com/KalebNyquistnoreply@blogger.com